Stop Complaining, Start Doing: Managing Complaints in Dental Practices
Hi, everyone. Welcome to this new episode of, Justin and John talk dentistry. This is John right now talking, and this is a topic that we're going to talk about that I'm quite excited about. As you know, I am French originally. What are French people known about for?
Jon Rat:We complain. But it seems like there is a big similarity between dental, employees, dentists, and French people. We love complaining. We love complaining. Complaining about everything can be complaining about our staff, complaining about the doctor, complaining about the products, the product management software that we use, complaining about the vendors, the marketing company.
Jon Rat:I'm not complaining about you, Justin. But, like, this is like a
Justin Clements:Go ahead.
Jon Rat:Team that
Justin Clements:You're French. I wouldn't expect anything more.
Jon Rat:French. No.
Justin Clements:I'm kidding.
Jon Rat:I'm kidding. But, like, one thing that I have noticed as well is that the the Facebook group, right, so many so many times there are those posts that are anonymous, and people complain. They don't necessarily wanna be known. They are worried about what others are going to think about them. And I'm like, you know, if you complain, first, if you can if you recognize yourself during this episode, don't feel bad.
Jon Rat:The only thing that I will tell you is stop complaining if you don't take actions. Now I think we're going to cover some of the topics today of complaining. Could be complaining about your staff, complaining about your software as your vendor. But, Justin, what what do you think? Do you think dentists and their staff tend to complain or not?
Justin Clements:No. I think we can just end the episode. Nobody complains in a dental practice. There's no drama. Like, we can just shut this down as our service episode.
Justin Clements:Yeah. Absolutely. You know, we we, you know, before this, like, we went through, like, a ball list of things, and, like, it just looked like we just shot the whole page up. Right? Because there's so many things.
Justin Clements:But, you know, I almost like to, like, I think back to my early days, not even in dentistry, specifically, but just in my career. And that wasn't even a career at that point. It was like a job. Like, there's a level of maturity and maturity, right, that comes along with, like, complaining, taking action. You know, now we'll always say, like, oh, just take action or have a suggestion, have a solution, bring us to the table.
Justin Clements:But I just think back to all the times that, like, I just came out and complained and didn't do anything about it. And if you look back on those moments, you really realize that, what did you gain, like, what did you gain from that exact moment? Likely nothing. You probably just maybe were job hopping at that point. But, yeah, it it absolutely happens in dental practices.
Justin Clements:And like you mentioned, it goes it goes every way. There I there's not one particular person in the practice that I think you could blame over the other, as much as the front desk may wanna blame the dentist, as much as the dentist may wanna blame everybody else. Right? I don't think there is one person that can take the fall for all of this. It goes, I think, evenly around it.
Justin Clements:And, you know, it can for me at least, it really comes down to communication. And, again, like and and we again, we we're saying, like, this is dental practices. This is outside of dental practices. Like, working with your vendor. It's your, you know, your supply vendor, or anybody.
Justin Clements:Right? This and I think vendors is actually a really good example of, setting expectations and communication piece. Right? Most people who are complaining usually don't have specific details, and so specificity is required when you are lodging a complaint of sorts. Right?
Justin Clements:And so let's just, like, kind of walk through, like, I what I think the step should be, and then John can would love to hear it from you. But for me, it's if if there's a source of frustration, you identify it. You capture 1 to 3 specific examples of that frustration. So you have data points to back yourself up, and then you think of potential solutions for said issue, and then you maturely and politely bring those up to the other party. So I'll just role play a scenario.
Justin Clements:I, let's just say I have a marketing company that I'm not happy with. And so I'm gonna be like, I don't get any new patients. Like, what the hell is going on? You guys don't send me anybody. Okay.
Justin Clements:That's the typical response, and I'm gonna change, you know okay. Great. You know what? We hear you know, I think you kinda hear that all the time. But if you're saying, like, okay.
Justin Clements:Like, let's look at the data of our marketing efforts. Have we even looked at the data that our marketing company is or maybe not providing to you to say, k. Here's how many clicks we're getting. Here's how many people were coming through. Here's how much money we've spent, etcetera, etcetera.
Justin Clements:I'm pulling out the data points. I'm saying, okay. Look at our new patient metrics for the past 3 months. As we've increased our ad spend with you, our new patients have gone down. How?
Justin Clements:Give the other side the opportunity to answer within a reasonable amount of time. You can't spring it on them in a meeting and then be like, where's my answer? Right? I think there's some things that you can get an answer an answer for instantaneously, but you need to allow for the other party to also do their due diligence and understand, like, I clearly see this is an issue for the client. Why is it an issue, and what can we do to either solve it?
Justin Clements:Or maybe it's really not an issue, and we need to further explain it. So, again, it's bringing data to the conversation, having that conversation in a very tactful manner with the vendor or with, you know and maybe you can speak more towards another employee, but, like, I'm thinking vendors. Like, having that that that conversation and then allowing for enough time to to go by for them to course correct that. And then if that doesn't resolve it, then you can rightfully be a little ticked off, and and lead with your emotions a little bit. But I I for me, it's just it's the vendor piece that really hits hard because kinda that's the those are the shoes that I'm in now.
Justin Clements:But kinda, John, would love to hear from you on it.
Jon Rat:I mean, I I think you you and I really connect on this. Why? Because we are we are data people. Alright? You said it.
Jon Rat:You have to start with data points. If you are not happy about something, whether it's your vendor, your staff, you have to look at the data. But before you even look at the data and bring, like, data points, are we even set on the same expectation? Do we have the same goals? Yeah.
Jon Rat:Right? I mean, if your goal let's take your your example again of, like, your your marketing company as a vendor, and you're like, I'm not happy because I'm not getting 20 new deals a month. Well, is that vendor on the same page with you that their goal is to get you 20 deals a month, 20 new deals a month. Right? And so I think it start with, are we having the same expectation?
Jon Rat:Now I will use the same with an employee. Right? You're a dentist. You are unhappy with, let's say, your phone desk, Andrew, with, like you're like, oh, Andrew is always on his phone and lazy and, like, I'm tired. Well, is Andrew actually know does Andrew knows what are his task?
Jon Rat:What is expected from him? What if he's done with his job? I mean, I actually saw a post literally today of, someone asking on a dental group, like, what is your policy response? And I will tell you in my own practice, it's okay. Staff can be on the phone if their job is done.
Jon Rat:If there is nothing else, I mean, we want them to be proactive. But then at the end, if their job is done, why not? And sometimes they might have emergency. So the first part is, we all align on the same goal, whether it's your staff, your vendor, anybody you you deal with. Then do you have data to back yourself up?
Jon Rat:If you are not happy but you don't have data, what if your marketing company is bringing you 20 new patient a month, and in the contract you sign, it was 20 patient a month? Then that means they're actually a 100% of goals. What if your goal was 15 patient a month? You are not happy because you expected more, but you might not have read all the contract or your expectation was actually off the charts. And so the first part again, making sure we're all aligned on the goal.
Jon Rat:2nd part, looking at the data. And the 3rd part that I see that so many people are are failing at it, it's communication. If you are not happy, I mean, I I will ask I I love to say, communication with your staff, communication with a vendor is like you are married. In a couple, if you are not happy with your spouse and you keep everything for yourself, what will happen? It's gonna blow up at some point.
Jon Rat:Well, it's the same with your team. Right? If you don't communicate, if you keep everything for yourself, at some point, the the water will go over and and you'll be at, I'm done with that employee. And that employee will be out of the blue, won't even know what's happening because you have never talked to them about
Justin Clements:Totally.
Jon Rat:What they are doing wrong. And so that that's the number one where I'm like, this this lack of communication is is really, like, lacking. And I will give an example of actually what we do at Archie. How do you make sure that everybody if we talk about employees, that everybody knows, like, what are their goals? Are they doing well?
Jon Rat:What can they improve? I mean, I think to me, the complaining about employees goes also with performance review. And I it's my view of tangent. Like we said, like you said earlier, Justin, the this actually like, we had bullet point and and we we like you said, okay. No.
Jon Rat:Let let's just talk. But if your employees don't know what are their tasks and their goal, and if you don't communicate with them, frequently, then they might expect a raise. They might expect a promotion, and then they will be disappointed and they will be complaining. And so what we do internally for us at Archie, we have what we call the t 3v3. We have performance review.
Jon Rat:Each employee knows their task, what they have to do. And t t three v three actually come from a company I used to work for before, Uber. T 3v3 stands for top 3, bottom 3. What are the top three things that you are doing well and the bottom three things that you could improve? Well, guess what?
Jon Rat:If you follow a framework like this, whether it's with an employee or a vendor, now you're actually setting expectation data point. You can have a conversation because you lead your conversation with, hey, Justin. Here are the 3 things you did well last quarter or last month, last week, whatever time frame you have. And here are the 3 things that I think you should improve. Then now you are not just complaining.
Jon Rat:You're actually complaining. You are bringing solution, and you have data points
Justin Clements:Yeah.
Jon Rat:To to better resolve that that that that problem. What what do you think?
Justin Clements:Yeah. No. It's just like there's 800 examples going through my head right now. I'm like, which one which one do I spit out, first? But, you know, I think it what this brings to mind for me is, I think, again, hitting the point of, like, setting the expectations, and that that's absolutely critical.
Justin Clements:There's a lot of times, you know, let's say specific to a dental practice where we hire a new employee and they're like, okay. What's my role? You're a dental assistant. And that's all they know. Right?
Justin Clements:Like, I'm a dental assistant. What does that mean? To do sterilization? Like, what are the things like, what do I need to do? And so people are coming in blind, a little bit unless you set the expectations.
Justin Clements:So super important to set that up front. But I think to the times when when I look back and just, you know, leadership operations roles and working with other managers, and and, you know, they might come to me and be like, hey, Justin. Like, I have an issue with this employee. Like, okay. And then the first question I always ask, like, have you talked to him?
Justin Clements:Oh, no. No. I haven't. And I'm like like, what? Like, how do you, like, how do you not?
Justin Clements:But I get it. People are a lot of people are opposed to having conversations with con like, they just avoid conflict. It's a natural, you know, internal instinct to do that. And so it is the the first thing that you have to do, though, is you've gotta communicate. If you keep it inside and never let that other person know what it is that's bothering you or what they're not doing correctly, and one day you just fire them.
Justin Clements:Right? You never want a termination to be a surprise. First off. Like, if it's going to happen because of performance, excuse me, or attendance, you the you kinda want them to feel it before it happens. And so, again, it's it is taking the first step and communicating with that person.
Justin Clements:And it's not it's communicating in a private forum. Right? It's not publicly. Like, I have seen some people just shit on other employees in the morning Huddl, and I'm like, oh, no. This is not this is not the spot to be doing and having this conversation.
Justin Clements:Mhmm. So, like Mhmm. What is it? Praise publicly and, I don't know, reprimand privately. I say reprimand.
Justin Clements:People are like, don't use that word. But, like, have those conversations privately. Have them as, like, a real person too. Like, you know, the the per like, you're a person, the the other person is a person. Like, we're all just people no matter what your role is.
Justin Clements:And having this honest, cordial conversation and allowing them to explain. A lot of the times, people don't know. Like, I don't think people most people intentionally do things incorrectly or intentionally don't do things. I say most. I know there are people that certainly do.
Justin Clements:I don't think most do that. Right? And so you need to bring awareness to it with that conversation. It very much so could be a surprise to that person, and they can be like, oh my god. I didn't even know.
Justin Clements:Thank you for letting me know. And then you you monitor and track it. But, you know, having consistent feedback loops and opportunities with your staff or with whoever. I don't care who it is in your life. You have to have consistent feedback loops.
Justin Clements:And 1 and if I'm at and I'm putting on, like, again, my dentist hat and thinking, if I'm a dentist and I'm listening to this, how the hell am I supposed to do this with my team? I think one thing you have to do is you have to preblock time in your schedule. Let's just say it's the entire year. You block out preset meetings. Here's when I'm gonna meet with my clinical team, or or here's when I'm gonna meet with my front desk.
Justin Clements:Here's when I'm gonna do 1 on ones. Here's when we're gonna do a, you know, a monthly or quarterly team event. What are preplan and preblock these events and these these occurrences because the most common excuse that I hear in an office is, oh, we just don't have time. Right? And it's like, no.
Justin Clements:You have time. You just didn't make time for what you need to do. So make the time and block it out. So, again, like, that was the I think that's the biggest thing that comes off to me
Jon Rat:is the timing. But just so you know, hold on. I disagree. I disagree. I cannot drop time on my schedule.
Jon Rat:I have to see patients. Where is the ROI? Right? If I if I talk to my team to try to get them better, I cannot see a patient.
Justin Clements:Is that what you're doing this time? No. Yeah. No. Don't do that.
Justin Clements:Like, it's okay. Just keep churning through employees and the cost that you're paying to recruit them and train them and the frustration and team morale. Like, all of these things that you you you can you could quantify if you want, and this is probably the data nerds in us is, like, you can create these, net promo don't even give me a start on net promoter score surveys. I those things. But you can you would have data points for stuff like this.
Justin Clements:But, like, if you can't tell, like, the temperature of your culture or atmosphere of your practice, that usually means that you're not in tune with with your team and with the people. And so it it's it's making the time. Not only is it making the time, but it's also, like, random acts of kindness, I think, go a really long ways in an office. So kindness doesn't have to be a lunch or a Starbucks gift card. Like, it can simply be like, hey, Danielle.
Justin Clements:I noticed you did a really awesome job yesterday with that patient when you were getting them wrapped up and taking them up front. Having those little random acts of kindness go a hell of a lot farther than a lot of other things, whether it's that lunch, again, that Starbucks gift card. Doing that, but doing it genuinely and doing it consistently shows to your team members that you care, and that goes a hell of a long ways with with employees, I think.
Jon Rat:And so, I mean, here, we have been talking with employees, about vendors. There there is another one, as you know, that I'm passionate about. It's the number of time I hear dentists, of course, like, with Archie, when we do demos or, like, it's like, oh, I don't like my software. I hate my software. And I'm going to call it.
Jon Rat:Like, I hate Eaglesoft. I hate Dentrix. I hate
Justin Clements:Shots fired.
Jon Rat:Here we go. When when shots fired. Right? But, like, I hear that literally every day. And then when I'm like, but what are you doing about it?
Jon Rat:Oh, but I'm scared. Like, how changing my software is hard. It's gonna be yes. Let's be honest. There are challenges.
Jon Rat:Right? Changing software, having your team, switch. There is always a hump. I always disclose it. Yes.
Jon Rat:I mean, some practices change and it's very smooth and getting through it. Some will take a couple of weeks, sometime even a month to to get through that at home. But it's kind of like whatever you do. Right? You you bought a new car.
Jon Rat:Well, you have to adapt to your new car. But then your new car will be better than the previous one. Right? You bought a new phone. You have to transfer all of your data.
Jon Rat:It's a bit scary. Like, what will happen? But then that new phone is more performant than the previous one. And then after maybe a few weeks, let's say you went from Android to an iPhone. And I can tell you after a week, you'll be like, what how why did I spend so much time on a Android phone?
Jon Rat:But it's the same with your practice management software. Like, if you are complaining but you are not taking action, How do I say let's stop complaining? Like, that's complaining just to complain. And so, yes, change can be scary. Change can be hard.
Jon Rat:But at the end, again, we keep on mentioning our our return on investment or return on investment. But it is, like, after just a few weeks, you will look back and you'll be like, why didn't we do it sooner? And so, I I brought that one up because I hear it in detail almost every day. Some dentists are like, I'm considering switching, but I'm scared. My staff is scared.
Jon Rat:Like, yes.
Justin Clements:It's okay.
Jon Rat:It's natural. But, again, if you don't take action, if you don't make a switch, I don't wanna hear it from you again. Like, don't come back 2 months later and telling me you still hate Dentrix. If you have not taken your action, your words don't mean anything anymore to me.
Justin Clements:Totally. Yeah. I totally agree. And, you know, it does something like a practice management system, I think that takes a bit of preplanning. Right?
Justin Clements:You gotta have a plan around how you're going to execute the change. It's not something that you go into blindly. And and, you know yeah. Especially the practice management system. I talk with a lot of dentists, and they talk about doing that.
Justin Clements:There's a lot of change management that's involved with that and with the team, and so it does require, you know, some planning and thoughts. But, you know, it is like you hear and even, you know, the team members again just complaining, but, like, they're not changing habits. They're not changing ways. And and so they just put themselves in this repetitive cycle over and over and over again. It really becomes record.
Justin Clements:And so, again, it it is. It's just take the action. If if you're complaining about something to just complain, it's not doing any good for anybody else, and figure out, hey. How how can I take this issue that I have and turn it into something positive? And and you may not you can't spin everything into a positive.
Justin Clements:Sometimes you just have to make difficult decisions and such, but, it it's super prevalent in, you know, well, I'd say in the dental industry just because it's really the only industry that I know. But it's it's prevalent everywhere. Right? But you see it a lot in in the dental space, and, like, you mentioned in, like, the Facebook groups, like, anonymous post. And, like, I think the the Facebook groups, like, cracked me up.
Justin Clements:Like, how many people go back and forth and go at each other's throats in, like, the common thread? It's it's kinda comical. It's almost like popcorn time to go into those groups and just kinda read through, some of what's being posted. And I think it also goes to show that if you're communicating through email, text message, something that's not verbal, that message can often be misconstrued and misrepresented on the other end. And so when you are taking action, you are having these conversations.
Justin Clements:Right? Similar to, like, the praise publicly piece is be like, pay attention to the medium that you're using to have these communications. Excuse me. You know, I've seen where a lot of and this would be more so in, like, the DSO space where, you know, instead of, like, going directly to the the employee, they've, like, sent an email about what they were doing incorrectly. And then the the employee comes in the next day, and it's a super awkward, you know, scenario for both people.
Justin Clements:And everybody's acting like nothing happened. And so, you know, it is. It's like figure out the medium that you wanna use verbally. You can often get across the true message of what's going on, because it can it can get twisted in a text or an email super easily.
Jon Rat:I I agree with you. Actually, I've just had an experience like that before, where, you know, we all come from different background. Even if you are born in the US and and you are from here, but, like, for me, I'm French originally. Like, we we tend to be more direct. But sometimes, again, if you don't know the other person's background, where they're coming from, how is the other day going, they might use words that you will interpret in one way and they meant it in a different way.
Jon Rat:That's why personally, like, I think going back to, again, employee to dentist, like, giving feedback, you have to have, like, a 1 on 1 face to face, in person, and you chat about it. It's not a text. It's not an email. Actually, absolutely not a text. Why?
Jon Rat:Because text, depending on what the person is doing let's say that person was fighting with, the significant other or having issue with a kid at home and, like, they're frustrated now that it's your text. They misinterpret. I think whenever you wanna give feedback, whether positive or or negative or constructive, it should be, face to face. And I will say there is one more, and I see actually so many people even actually in in dentistry using terms that are so vague. Hey, Justin.
Jon Rat:Sorry I was late. What is late? For a French person, 15 minute is not late. 15 minutes, you are on time. Well, I I can tell you I have learned that, no.
Jon Rat:In the US, actually, there there's a lot of term in sales. If you are on time, you are late. You should be there early. And so, again, like, if your staff if you tell them you are late every day, what does that even mean? If if they have to clock in at 9, they arrive at 9:0:1, do you consider that late?
Justin Clements:Yeah.
Jon Rat:If they arrive at, you know, 9 Square, are they on time? Are they late? And so I I use that example. It's because it's so an easy one. But going back to what we discussed early, making sure that everybody understand the same like, what is our goal?
Jon Rat:What are we talking about? Are we aligned with the terms that we use and and their meaning? Same way. If someone tell you it's expensive, and that that could can go with the patient. Right?
Jon Rat:It's too expensive. What is expensive? As a dentist, $50 might not be too expensive. As a patient, who is I don't know. $50 would be expensive.
Justin Clements:If you're asking me to spend my money on marketing though every month, that would be expensive. I have to I have to I have to fire that shot. I have to fire that shot. Too easy. Anyhoo, it's good.
Jon Rat:I think it's a it's an easy one. We we we deal with the same here, But, actually, that goes back with expectation. You know? Actually, going back to you and marketing. Right?
Jon Rat:If you are complaining about your marketing vendor and you are like, oh, they are too expensive. But even there, what is expensive? If you are spending $500 a month in marketing and getting a 100 patient new patient a month, I will tell you that's very, very cheap.
Justin Clements:Thank you.
Jon Rat:I mean, if you are if you are getting 10 patient a month for 500, that's, like, that's a customer acquisition cost of $50 per patient. That's very, very cheap. I mean, it's like, everybody will will sign up for this. But it goes back to set the right goals. Don't be also don't be unrealistic.
Jon Rat:I mean, I Justin, I'm sure you hear it. Alright. So some dentists come to you and they wanna spend, I don't know, $300 a month in marketing and they want 50 new patients. I see even us with Archie. Sometime I have dentist to come and they they wanna pay, like, 2, $300 a month for Archie.
Jon Rat:And I'm like, we are literally your main software to run your practice. You have to be realistic. I mean, we have cost as well. And so make sure you set the right expectation. I mean, if you can't at some point, some people, like you said earlier, complain to complain.
Jon Rat:So I guess those, we won't change them. But goals, metrics, communication, I think those are the 3 really thing that I highly recommend, for those that tend to to complain. What do you think?
Justin Clements:Yeah. Yeah. No. I would agree. You know, you hit on a point that I think is actually pretty important, and it's to me, it's really the, like, if you're if if somebody isn't performing, and let's just use, like, on a particular day or they're late, and they they just seem off.
Justin Clements:Like, you you really you don't know what's happening to that person or what's going on to that person in that day and time. And so it's very easy to make some pre, you know, preconceived assumptions and bias based on what's in your head, and they may be having a terrible day. They may have had a family member pass away that they haven't told you about, and so they're they're just they're not performing at their greatest. And and, you know, if you see something of that sort, I think it's always good to pull somebody like that to the side and be like, hey. Like, what's going on?
Justin Clements:Is everything okay? I've I've personally found that starting conversations that way a lot, has allowed people to lower their guard and and and open up to you. And, like, I was super guilty of this when I first started working. I was just assuming, like, what the hell is wrong with that person? Just like, do your damn job.
Justin Clements:But then I'm like, no. Like, we all go through things in life. Right? And we all have bad days, and you you you can't assume that you know what that person's going through. So open, you know, open up to them, have them open up to you so you can further understand, you know, the rationale behind why they are the way they are.
Justin Clements:That to me builds those genuine connections and those relationships in the practice that heat up a much stronger office than others that are out there culturally.
Jon Rat:Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. That that was a quite a a fun topic to to talk about, Justine. Again, if I sum it up, stop complaining if you don't take action.
Jon Rat:And if you wanna take action, make sure you have, like, goals, metrics to track, and communicate. Communicate. Communicate. Communicate. Whether it's with your staff, with your boss, with your vendor, with your software company, it's gonna be critical.
Jon Rat:And and if you don't do it, you won't be successful.
Justin Clements:That's right. And be reasonable. You have to be reasonable. You can't come in with these unrealistic expectations. They're it happens far too often, that I'd like to mention on, you know, these unrealistic expectations based on whatever the hell dream this person had the night prior and they thought was possible.
Justin Clements:Setting those up front and ensuring that you stick to them will only make sure that, especially with vendors, that these relationships, thrive rather than suffer.
Jon Rat:I agree. I agree. I hear the same. Though those crazy expectation that we get sometimes, can, I'm still puzzled by what I hear sometime on the day today. But thank you for listening to to this episode.
Jon Rat:Honestly, it was fun. Something that Justin and I did on a quite quite a lot, with, but hopefully, after listening, you would be thinking twice, and and you would have reset the expectation that you have. And and you will have a communication with your team. But thank you all for listening. On to the next one.
Justin Clements:Yeah. We'll be trolling you on the Facebook groups.
Jon Rat:Take care, everyone.
Justin Clements:See you, guys.
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